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Three Interviews with David Epston

Counterstorying, Hauntings from the Future, Wonderfulness Enquiries & Possibilities from the Future

With David Epston & Kay Ingamells

Course Description

None of us has an intention of turning people into David’s clone. This is about people being inspired by his practice and turning it into their own.

Kay Ingamells

What lies at the very heart of the artistry of Narrative Practice?  What is a good question and what does such a question do? What is a good story and how does it does it ‘counter’ a problematic story? David has engaged with these questions for over the last 15 years in traditional live workshop formats and more recently in The Apprenticeship in the Artistry of Narrative Practice Program with David Epston, Kay Ingamells, and Tom Carlson.

This course demonstrates innovative teaching methods to teach the craft and art of narrative inquiry training with immersion learning through transcripts and internalized other questioning. We focus on three interviews: 1) David’s well-known interview and follow-up seven years later with Sebastian; 2) David’s interview with counselor Viola who has met 8 times with 16 year old Joel, and then 5 minutes in, he begins to interview her as Joel; 3) David’s interview with social worker Karen as Jane and then as Jane’s son Tim. Each time, we review a recorded interview, alongside a transcript, paying close attention to questions and reflections. Relevant papers and essays will be distributed prior to or after each session as well.

Each interview and its transcript gives an insider view of David’s inventive interviewing practices. David and Kay demonstrate such practices as: getting to know a person’s uniqueness, counterstorying, playful approaches and imaginative knowhow, haunting from the future, and letter-writing.  For those interested in more intensive training situated within their own practice, this series serves as a gateway to The Apprenticeship.

An Apprentice Spirit

Reflective and Interactive Learning

While constructing this course, we did our best to encourage innovative thinking and respect for the individual. Throughout, we bring in the voices of graduates of The Apprenticeship in the Art of Narrative Practice Program with David Epston, Kay Ingamells, and Tom Carlson. As you’ll soon see, apprentices’ voices are sprinkled throughout, as they reflect on the three interviews and contribute to our Padlet and Flip interactive spaces.

Course Objectives

Participants will:
  1. Apply “internalized other” interviewing as pedagogy for teaching the craft and art of narrative inquiry.
  2. Synthesize an understanding of and engagement with thinking within stories.
  3. Identify aspects of a narrative questioning approach in at least one of three illustrations.
  4. Describe at least four key practices in this approach to narrative inquiry.
  5. Re-examine the concept of self as bound by individualistic notions.
  6. Apply specific practice questions to develop the concept of “counter-storying” in a specific interview.

To Register

Registration gives unlimited access to all course materials for personal use for an unlimited time. You can start this course at any time: all course materials are available on-demand and adaptable to personal schedules. For an additional $40, registrants can earn 15 APA approved CE credits through Alliant International University.

Discounted rates available for students or fixed income, international registrants, and groups of 5 or more.
Registration Info Coming Soon
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If Registered, Click Here to Take the Course

Course Contributors

David Epston

David Epston

David Epston (Auckland, New Zealand) co-founder of narrative therapy alongside Michael White, brings a sense of wonder, adventure and innovation to his conversations and collaborations. What makes a good question? What guides inquiry in narrative therapy? What are some narrative lines of inquiry? The collaboration between David and Michael began in the late 1970s and continued for many years. David’s best-known publications are Narrative Means to Therapeutic Ends; White and Epston (1990), Playful Approaches to Serious Problems: Narrative Therapy with Children and Their Families; Maisel, Epston and Borden (2004), Biting The Hand That Starves You: Inspiring Resistance to Anorexia/Bulimia; Maisel, Epston and Borden (2004), and Narrative Therapy in Wonderland; Marsten, Epston, and Markham (2016).

For more information, please review: David Epston: Improvisations, innovations and collaborations.

Kay Ingamells M.S.W

Kay Ingamells M.S.W., (Auckland, New Zealand) has been working with individuals, children, young people and families since 1990. Kay began her career working with troubled young people and children in residential care and in specialist agencies, then spent nine years working in child and adolescent mental health. For the past ten years she has lectured in narrative therapy in higher education at undergraduate and post-graduate level and has been running a private therapy and counseling practice for children, families, young people and adults. For the last twelve years she has been supervised by the co-inventor of Narrative Therapy, David Epston, and has taught alongside David for the last five years. Kay has published several articles. She is currently writing and presenting about her apprenticeship with David Epston. She also provides one-on-one and group training called ‘Training Through Transcripts’, to narrative practitioners committed to bringing David’s practices into their own work.

Building Interaction

Discovering Padlets and Flip

While this course was under construction, we discovered Padlets and Flip as added opportunities for participants to share reflections, takeaways, and emerging questions. You’ll now find these throughout this course! Participation in any Padlet or through Flip is entirely optional. However, we fully believe that joining will enhance this course experience for us and each other.

Thank you to all who are already contributing your voices to this course!

Lesson Descriptions

Lesson One: Setting the Stage

We introduce David, Kay, and the course which builds on David’s steadfast commitment to the art and craft of narrative inquiry. Kay describes her apprenticeship with David. Together they describe their unique approach to therapy as art and training through transcripts. Kay highlights what to watch for in the interviews.

Lesson Two: How We Teach

How does someone learn the craft of narrative inquiry toward becoming a narrative artist? This lesson begins with the reminder that it is not about learning to become David’s clone. Michael often referred to the quote from literary theorist Lionel Trilling: “It’s the copying that originates.” Akin to improvising in jazz, first you learn the scales, and then you leave them to one side to express your own creative bent. We describe training through transcripts and internalized other questioning.

Lesson Three: The Sebastian Interview

David and Kay demonstrate their approach to training with the well-known “Sebastian” interview, and the