Three Interviews with David Epston

We introduce David, Kay, and the course which builds on David’s steadfast commitment to the art and craft of narrative inquiry. Kay describes her apprenticeship with David. Together they describe their unique approach to therapy as art and training through transcripts. Kay highlights what to watch for in the interviews.

How does someone learn the craft of narrative inquiry toward becoming a narrative artist? This lesson begins with the reminder that it is not about learning to become David’s clone. Michael often referred to the quote from literary theorist Lionel Trilling: “It’s the copying that originates.” Akin to improvising in jazz, first you learn the scales, and then you leave them to one side to express your own creative bent. We describe training through transcripts and internalized other questioning.

In this lesson four practices, some well known and others emerging, are explored in greater detail. Join David and Kay in their illuminating conversations on counter-storying, wonderfulness enquiries, witnessing,  and hauntings from the future and have a go at them yourself with our interactive activities.

David and Kay demonstrate their approach to training with the well-known “Sebastian” interview, and the follow-up seven years later. In addition to exploring the original video and transcript, Kay gives her commentary.

In this video, we meet 16 year-old Joel through his counsellor Viola. Joel has very irregular school attendance. When he does attend school he has panic attacks. His father has a long history of drug addiction and violence against Joel’s mother and Joel. Joel has also assaulted his mother. Joel’s wonderfulnesses are evoked and witnessed in multiple ways. These wonderfulnesses are brought forward into the future and set against the problem using internalized other interviewing and future forecasting. A counter-story is told about Joel’s moral identity and this story is witnessed by the important others in his life in such a way that the effects of the past violence are acknowledged and transformed inside this imagined future.

Jane and her partner had four children, two of whom died with neglect. Neither was charged but the Child Protection Services removed their remaining two children. This interview took place with the social worker who visited weekly for over two years, after which any further surveillance was waived as Jane and Tim had bonded as mother and son. Tim had also stopped ‘weirding people out.’ In this lesson, David and Kay look in-depth at the interview transcript, paying close attention to each question and response. Throughout they reflect on storying people as moral characters, how a mother crafts her love, and the counter-story featuring the remarkable transformation in the relationship between Jane and Tim, attributed to Jane’s determination, the support she received, and Tim’s efforts to change. The lesson concludes by identifying specific question practices.

In this lesson you can explore some of David Epston’s other inventions through this bonus material. Witness the thinking behind these marvellous practices with David and Kay as well as exploring some more recent reincarnations of these practices. Also share your own reflections and experiences of the lessons to leave your own mark on the course for future students!