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NextGen Series Conversationalist Rateshow details + $200.00 USD  

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  •  May 19, 2024 - May 18, 2025
     8:00 am - 5:00 pm

NextGen Collaboratory

Special Rate for Conversationalists

Co-hosts Poh Lin Lee, Akansha Vaswani-Bye, Peggy Sax and MANY cherished contributors

May 19, 2024; September 15, 2024; November 17, 2024; January 19, 2025; March 16, 2025, May 18, 2025

Sundays 4:00 pm – 7:00 pm EST & EDT (New York time)

Thank you so much for agreeing to be one of our treasured conversationalists.  This “Conversationalist Rate” for $200 USD is for you if, in addition to participating in your specific gathering, you wish to join us for the entire series. It gives you access to recordings if you cannot attend in person and will enable you to earn CE credit for the series. Please only use this link for yourself and do not share it with others.  If you need further support, please don’t hesitate to contact us. 

A Yearlong Series Exploring Contemporary and Emerging Narrative Practices 

Our Treasured Series Conversationalists

What a team of colleagues contributing to this series! We will keep adding a few additions – please let us know if we’ve left anyone out.

Daniel Angus

Daniel Angus (Sydney, Australia) is a Psychologist and board-approved clinical supervisor who splits his time supporting early career helping professionals, seeing clients in his private practice, and fulfilling his commitments to a range of organizations, one of which is as Deputy Commissioner for the New South Wales Mental Health Commission. Daniel was formerly managing Headspace Services, a busy adolescent mental health service supporting young people in both a Primary care setting and those with first-episode psychosis in Western Sydney. More recently, Daniel held a National position with Canteen Australia providing support to Canteen’s Psychosocial Staff employed to support young people impacted by Cancer. Daniel has worked in a range of public and non-government services and continues to provide consultation to various boards and committees. Daniel has a strong interest in creative recovery, is focused on collaborative treatment approaches, and has trained specifically in Narrative therapy, and is particularly passionate about creative and engaging approaches to adolescent mental health.

Tanya Barr

Tanya Barr obtained her M.A. from Antioch Los Angeles in Clinical Psychology, where she specialized in Applied Community Psychology where she studied the reciprocal relationship between individuals and their communities. She believes that being connected to oneself and sacred other (people, nature, ancestors, etc...) is a pathway for integrative health and empowerment. She is in private practice as an LMFT and professor specializing in narrative explorations around race, trauma, relational dynamics, structural inequities, consumerism, spirituality, and sexuality. She is sex-positive, queer, kink, and poly practicing and welcomes the opportunity to be in communication with others who are seeking voice, clarity, connection in slowing down, and a renewed sense of joyful vitality.

Marie-Nathalie Beaudoin

Marie-Nathalie Beaudoin, Ph.D., deeply cherishes nature and values being a mother, wife, activist, consultant, teacher, and compassionate practitioner. She was born and raised in Canada, is French speaking, loves cross-country skiing, dancing, rock climbing, and hiking snowy mountain peaks.

Marie-Nathalie directs Skills for Kids, Parents & Schools (SKIPS), a 9-month intense narrative therapy, neurobiology and mindfulness training program in California where she works with children, adults, families, and school communities. Prior to immersing herself in narrative therapy in the early 1990s, Marie-Nathalie had trained in Human Biology and Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction. She now brings together fields that have influenced her life and work for the last 30 years, and as a result has pioneered narrative clinical practices to respond to distressing emotions and traumatic experiences. She has written over 50 professional articles and many books such as the popular The SKiLL-ionaire in every child: Boosting childrens socio-emotional skills using the latest in brain research (2010), written for parents, teachers and counselors (French, English, Spanish). She has also co-authored Collaborative Therapies and neurobiology: Evolving practices in action (Beaudoin & Duvall, 2017), and Mindfulness in a busy world: Lowering barriers for youth & adults to cultivate focus, emotional peace & gratefulness (Beaudoin & Maki, 2021). Her latest book, co-authored with Gerald Monk is currently in press with WW Norton and titled: Narrative practices and emotions: 40+ ways to support the emergence of flourishing identities. It combines her lifelong passion for the immense possibilities inherent to our bodies and brains, with novel narrative practices inspired by Interpersonal Neurobiology, Sensorimotor Therapy, and Positive Psychology. With a background in improvisational theater and dance, Marie-Nathalie is well-known for her thought provoking and engaging presentations. Her websites are and

Gabrielle Brady

Gabrielle Brady is an award-winning Australian/ British Director and Screenwriter based in Berlin. Gabrielle’s debut feature film ‘Island of the Hungry Ghosts,' made in collaboration with narrative therapist Poh Lin Lee, was nominated for an Independent Spirit award, Cinema Eye Spotlight award and won the Best Documentary award at the Tribeca film festival, Mumbai International film festival and the Australian independent film awards. The film has been shown at major international film festivals as well as in cinemas worldwide and has received over 40 international prizes.

Gabrielle's work has been featured at the Museum of Moving Image NY, the Institute of Contemporary Arts London, and The Eye in Amsterdam. Her work has been selected as a ‘Critics Pick’ by the New York Times and described by the Guardian as ‘Fierce and compassionate.’ Gabrielle has recently completed two short films for gallery distribution, ‘Remain’ and ‘River Undain’ commissioned by the Art Gallery of NSW Australia and the Prototype platform. Gabrielle is in production on her next feature-length documentary project, ‘The Wolves Always Come at Night’, and is in development on her first feature fiction project, ‘Bird Colony’ (W.T). Gabrielle studied Documentary Direction for three years at La Escuela Internacional de Cine (EICTV) in Cuba. She has previously studied Theatre Performance. She is a Berlinale Doc Station and Talents Alumni.

Maggie Carey

In this course, Maggie Carey articulates and demonstrates narrative interviewing practices that she learned as a close associate of Michael White, co-founder of narrative therapy. Maggie was a founding member of Narrative Practices Adelaide, the center Michael started in 2008, just a few months before his untimely death. Alongside her colleagues Shona Russell and Rob Hall, she was involved in the teaching of narrative therapy and community work for many years, both in Australia and internationally. Prior to the establishment of NPA, Maggie was a cherished member of the Dulwich Centre teaching faculty. Now retired, Maggie thoroughly enjoys engaging with her home, gardens, family and community in Adelaide, S. Australia.

Piper Clyborne

Piper Clyborne is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker and has over 20 years of experience working with diverse populations in a multitude of clinical and non-clinical contexts from a Narrative Therapy approach. Piper began her career as a social justice advocate and community worker, providing services for individuals living with HIV/AIDS, women-identified, and children subjected to multiple forms of violence and trauma, and international social work with impoverished communities. Her professional career began with an undergraduate degree in human services and political science from Evergreen State College in 2004. In 2008, she completed a master’s in social work with a concentration in mental health from The University of Vermont. Piper’s career as a psychotherapist has primarily been focused on serving communities most marginalized by political injustice and trauma so they may reclaim their voices and collective power/influence. Most recently, Piper spends a great deal of time loitering in the arts to bring creative inspiration, wonderment, and new possibilities into her work.

Gene Combs

Gene Combs, MD is a Co-Director of Evanston Family Therapy Center and founding members of the Chicago Center for Family Health, an independent affiliate of the University of Chicago.along with co-director Jill Freedman, they have co-authored more than 30 journal articles and book chapters and 3 books -- Symbol, story, and ceremony: Using metaphor in individual and family therapy, Narrative therapy: The social construction of preferred realities, and Narrative therapy with couples.... and a whole lot more!

Lucy Cotter

Lucy Cotter is the co-founder of Narrative Counseling Center and a narrative therapist in L.A., California. She has a passion for narrative therapy and couples counseling, individual and family therapy. With an MFA as a painter and collage artist from Otis College of Art, she brings out-of-the-box and creative thinking to her psychotherapy clients' stories. Her interests in postmodern narrative therapies, art, and critical thinking have intersected in ways that her clients and students have appreciated.

Amy Druker
Sol D’Urso

Sol D’Urso, M.A., LMFT is Adjunct Faculty in the MFT program at the University of San Diego. Sol’s primary clinical work has been with refugee families, survivors of torture, at risk children and youth and transnational individuals and families in San Diego and the US-Mexico border region. Sol provides therapy and supervision in English and Spanish. In addition to her work as Adjunct Faculty at USD, she has a private practice and also co-facilitates a narrative consultation/supervision group with Dr. Sarah Kahn for therapists in the community. curriculum using a whole systems approach.

David Epston

David Epston (Auckland, New Zealand) David Epston, co-founder of narrative therapy alongside Michael white, brings a sense of wonder, adventure and innovation to his conversations and collaborations. What makes a good question? What guides inquiry in narrative therapy? What are some narrative lines of inquiry? The collaboration between David and Michael began in the late 1970s, as continued for many years. David’s best known publications are White and Epston(1990), Narrative Means to Therapeutic Ends; Freeman, Epston and Lobovits(1997), Playful Approaches to Serious Problems: Narrative Therapy with Children and their Families and Maisel, Epston and Borden(2004), Biting The Hand That Starves You: Inspiring Resistance to Anorexia/Bulimia, Narrative Therapy in Wonderland.

Jan Ewing

Jan Ewing, Ph.D. (San Diego, California) founded Narrative Initiative San Diego (NISD) with a focus on training Marriage & Family Therapy (MFT) trainees and interns in Narrative Therapy practices in an integrated healthcare setting. With close to 30 years of clinical experience, she trained directly with Michael White. She has been the director of two university-based counseling clinics and is a full-time faculty in the MFT Graduate Program at San Diego State University. In addition to directing the clinical work at NISD, she sees clients in her private practice, Narrative Health Initiatives, where she considers the intersection of physiology and mental health.

Jenny Freeman
Jenny (Jennifer) Freeman is inspired to engage our field as we respond to calls for environmental and social healing and justice. Meeting with people of all ages in independent practice, group, and school settings, she loves collaborative creativity, interweaving Narrative and Just therapies with somatic, expressive arts, and energy therapies. She co-hosts, Reauthoring Teaching’s Earth’s Environmental Crisis and Opportunity. She collaborated with Dr.Akansha Vaswani-Bye on a Mad in America podcast and contributed a blog; interview for The Psychotherapy Networker, and other media interviews. Earlier work includes Playful Approaches to Serious Problems: Narrative Therapy with Children and their Families, Freeman, Epston, and Lobovits (1997); Enter the Magic Sleep Garden (2007), audio/booklet; multiple chapters in edited books. Jenny is emeritus faculty of John F. Kennedy University. As a member of a Samoan community, she has engaged in collective practice in Samoa, and contributed the essay A Living Legacy to Whispers and Vanities: Samoan Indigenous Knowledge and Religion (2014) and the AFTER THE WAVE film. She is working on a book/podcast on interspecies communication, envisioning humans in healthy, just, restorative ways of interbeing with nature.
Jill Freedman

Jill Freedman, MSW is a Co-Director of Evanston Family Therapy Center and a founding member of the Chicago Center for Family Health, an independent affiliate of the University of Chicago. Jill practices therapy in the Chicago area and consults to organizations and schools. She is on the international faculty of the Dulwich Centre and teaches in the low-residency Master's program in narrative therapy and community work offered by Dulwich Centre and the University of Melbourne.

Ingrid Guerrieri

Ingrid B Guerrieri (she/ella) is a clinician and art facilitator supporting creative explorations of identity, relational ethics, and intentional living. She is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and an Expressive Arts Therapist based in California, specifically in the southern borderland Tijuana-San Diego. Ingrid is a Colombian immigrant, identifies as a cisgender queer woman, and loves nature, cooking, eating, and dancing salsa; she is also a free-spirited visual artist who believes in the power of community, play, ritual, and imagination.

Ingrid has worked in community mental health settings for about a decade and has recently transitioned to private practice. She has a preference for working with adults, individually and in partnership; and is interested in supporting explorations of sexual diversity, partnership configurations, and intimacy. Ingrid is enthusiastic about promoting community-based art explorations.

Ingrid works in English, Spanish, and Spanglish, and has had the privilege of being trusted to work with HIV impacted communities, couples, LGBTQIA+ folx, and social service workers and therapists. Her private practice (CreArte Counseling) provides virtual clinical services in California, and facilitates community art making experiences nationally and internationally. She is also a founder member of the Art Flow Collective, a group of women of color that offer Expressive Art workshops to underserved communities in San Diego.

Ingrid is grateful for the knowledge and resilience of human and non-human ancestors and relations, and for being entrusted with the stories of those with whom she has had the privilege to work.

Lodovica Guidarelli
Lodovica Guidarelli is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist in Private Practice in San Diego. Before becoming a therapist, Lodovica earned a Ph.D. in Italian at the University of Wisconsin, Madison, and taught Italian language, literature, and culture in several universities in the US. Currently, she works with a diverse population including Italian-speaking clients who live in the US. In her practice, she brings a critical lens to the unique ways in which multilingual speakers engage in the therapeutic process.

SuEllen Hamkins

SuEllen Hamkins, MD is a psychiatrist and author. SuEllen’s passion is helping people cultivate their values and strengths in the face of challenges and difficulties. Her work centers on three main areas: narrative psychiatry, college student mental health and mother-daughter relationships. She is Assistant Director of the Center for Counseling and Psychological Health at the University of Massachusetts-Amherst and Adjunct Clinical Assistant Professor at Tufts University School of Medicine. SuEllen is a co-founder of the Mother-Daughter Project, and has created a series of videos on helping mothers and daughter thrive. Her most recent book is The Art of Narrative Psychiatry, published by Oxford University Press. To read more, click here.

SuEllen gave the 2015 workshop, Working with people facing severe and persistent problems, and has presented on the Collab Salon on Working with People Who are Living with Serious and relentless problems or Mental Health Challenges.

Jen Hart

Jennifir Bailes Hart was trained as a Dance/Movement Therapist and Mental Health Counselor at Antioch New England and has worked as a counselor and expressive arts therapist since 1999. She has worked with individuals across many life stages, from infants to elders. Her current work is centered on adults undergoing life transitions, members of the LGBTQ+ community, parents supporting neurodiverse children, and neurodiverse adults, particularly those navigating and responding to ADHD.

Jen was thrilled to encounter post-modern approaches and the narrative metaphor as a new clinician when she was part of an Early Childhood and Family mental health team with Peggy Sax as a training and technical consultant and found Narrative Therapy fit in perfectly with her undergraduate focus on post-modern literary theory, queer theory, and textual criticism. She was lucky enough to complete continuing education with Michael White, Shona Russell, Maggie Carey, and Gay Stockell, among others, and found her curiosity and compassionate spirit as a practitioner blossomed in the light of the narrative metaphor, connecting her to her clients and craft in a satisfying and enriching way.

Jen is interested in art, music, movement, and writing as fundamental forms of creative expression and identity investigation and as ways to discover and explore metaphor and personal and universal symbolism. She has cultivated and treasured her own artistic practice for many years and has found joy, connection, depth, and wonder in creating art in many forms. She has noticed the learning she gathers from process-oriented work is as valuable as that gleaned from the final product, and she enjoys sharing these processes with her clients.

Chris Hoff

Chris Hoff, PhD, LMFT is Founder and Executive Director of the California Family Institute (CFI) in southern California. CFI is a nonprofit organization that was established as a community counseling center that provides desperately needed low-cost counseling services for the community, and for the development of research and training for those interested in post-structuralist, post-oppositional, and compositionist narrative therapy approaches.

Sarah Beth Hughes

Sarah Beth Hughes works as a Couple and Family Therapist in Nelson, BC Canada. She was introduced to Narrative ideas through her work as the North American Distributor of Dulwich Publications throughout the 1990’s. She got the privilege of attending many of Michael White’s training and got inspired to do this kind of work herself. Along the way she also met many of Michael’s colleagues and friends including Peggy Sax who have helped her feed her passion for this work.

Kay Ingamells

Kay Ingamells M.S.W., (Auckland, New Zealand) has been working with individuals, children, young people and families since 1990. Kay began her career working with troubled young people and children in residential care and in specialist agencies, then spent nine years working in child and adolescent mental health. For the past ten years she has lectured in narrative therapy in higher education at undergraduate and post-graduate level and has been running a private therapy and counselling practice for children, families, young people and adults. For the last 12 years she has been supervised by the co-inventor of Narrative Therapy, David Epston, and has taught alongside David for the last 5 years. Kay has published several articles. She is currently writing and presenting about her apprenticeship with David Epston. She also provides one-on-one and group training called ‘Training Through Transcripts’, to narrative practitioners committed to bringing David’s practices into their own work.

Yiannis Kafkas

Due to my father's job, I grew up in a cinema. I grew up with people, images, and stories. I became a psychologist, a narrative therapist, and a documentary photographer. I work with people, images, and stories. I am trying to keep a political view on every aspect of my life. The ideas of justice, freedom, equality and solidarity are informing the way I think and act. During the most difficult time of my life, someone took my hand and told me, Don't be afraid; we will walk together. Those words made me a therapist. Lately, I think of my professional role as a transition facilitator—something like a boatman. I have a daughter. Her name is Kallirroe. In Greek that means 'nice flow.'

Sarah Kahn

Sarah Kahn (San Diego) is the Director of the Counseling and Social Change program at San Diego State University (SDSU) and teaches at SDSU at both the undergraduate and graduate level. She is a licensed marriage and family therapist and has been learning and practicing from a narrative perspective since 2003. Sarah’s research focuses on narrative approaches to pedagogy, the clinical supervision process and mentorship. Her teaching addresses the areas of culture, power and difference, the social construction of identity and applied clinical training. She is interested in the many bridges that can be constructed between narrative, power, pedagogy, and community practice. In addition, Sarah maintains an active therapy practice, supervises and co-leads a community based narrative consultation group for both licensed and unlicensed therapists. She is also a member of Narrative Initiatives San Diego, a community-based therapy practice and training center located in San Diego, California.

Mona Klausing

Mona Klausing (San Diego) is the co-director and clinical supervisor at NISD Counseling, a non-profit counseling center where we train marriage & family therapists and serve low-income and uninsured clients. In September 2023, she launched a new marriage & family therapy corporation, Avani Counseling, where she works as a licensed therapist, clinical supervisor, and mentor to a team of therapists.Mona also teaches as adjunct faculty at San Diego State University.

Charley Lang

Charley Lang, MFT (Los Angeles, California) created the online course, Queer Counseling & Narrative Practice and cohosts The Collab Salon. He is co-founder of Narrative Counseling Center, providing resource-oriented consultation services for individuals, couples, and families, in addition to strength-based psychotherapy training for interns and therapists in the Los Angeles area. As Director of the Psychology and Addiction Studies Concentrations at Antioch University, he teaches numerous courses, including Narrative Therapy in Practice, Human Sexualities, Shakespeare Deconstructed and Madness in American History & Film. For many years he was Director of the Postmodern Therapy Training Program at the California Family Counseling Center and mental health supervisor at the AIDS Service Center in Pasadena. Always on the lookout for new and engaging alternative stories, Lang produced and directed several documentary films, including the HBO award-winning Gay Cops: Pride Behind the Badge.

Poh Lin Lee

Poh Lin Lee is a Chinese Malaysian Australian woman who comes to her practice through multiple experiences and relationships as a narrative therapy practitioner, social worker, co-researcher of trauma/displacement, writer, teacher, film protagonist and creative consultant.

Since 2004 Poh has been engaged in therapeutic co-research with people and communities responding to themes of experience such as family and state violence, displacement (from rights, land, home, body, identity, relationships), liminality and reclaiming practices of staying with experience and preference. Creative and therapeutic fields intersected for Poh whilst working with people seeking asylum within a film project with director Gabrielle Brady, Island of the Hungry Ghosts (2018).