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  • August 20, 2023
    4:00 pm - 5:30 pm

Traveling with People into Unfinalizable Futures:

Internalized Other Questioning and Hauntings from the Future

with Kay Ingamells & David Epston (Auckland, New Zealand)

August 20, 2023 Collab Salon: 4:00 – 5:30 pm NY time

 Many psychological versions of people or psychiatric versions of people were determinative. They foreclosed a future for them.  Internalized Other Questioning and Haunting from the Future are two ways that I found to make people enigmatic or to use a more formal literary philosophical term of Bakhtin, unfinalizable. So the stories of their lives were yet to come or unfolding as they live their lives. And these two forms of inquiry were really constructed or invented to contradict the determinative or foreclosing ways of many professional inquiries. David Epston in conversation with Kay Ingamells, July 6, 2022.

Our new series, Where the Buses Don’t Run Yet, is constructed around edited conversations between David Epston and Kay Ingamells.  This Collab focuses on two imaginative practices covered in these courses: Internalized Other Interviewing and Hauntings from the Future. Illustrating with training interviews, David takes advantage of pedagogical circumstances to demonstrate using the future as a playground in narrative conversations.

Learning Objectives

The program supported me to:

1. Articulate benefits for positioning the future as a playground in narrative conversations.

2. Learn how a haunting from the future can bring forth unfinalizable possibilities to what previously seemed finalized.

3. Understand the Internalized Other Interview as a pedagogical approach to learning narrative interviewing practices.

To Review

Haunting from the future: A congenial approach to parent children conflicts. By David Epston
(from Down under and Up over – a collection of papers by David Epston, Cherelyn Lakusta, and Karl Tomm

Click here to Read Article: Haunting from the Future


David EpstonDavid Epston (Auckland, New Zealand) David Espton, co-founder of narrative therapy alongside Michael white, brings a sense of wonder, adventure and innovation to his conversations and collaborations. What makes a good question? What guides inquiry in narrative therapy? What are some narrative lines of inquiry? The collaboration between David and Michael began in the late 1970s, as continued for many years. David’s best known publications are White and Epston(1990), Narrative Means to Therapeutic Ends; Freeman, Epston and Lobovits(1997), Playful Approaches to Serious Problems: Narrative Therapy with Children and their Families and Maisel, Epston and Borden(2004), Biting The Hand That Starves You: Inspiring Resistance to Anorexia/Bulimia, Narrative Therapy in Wonderland.

For more information, please review: David Epston: Improvisations, innovations and collaborations.

Kay Ingamells M.S.W., (Auckland, New Zealand) has been working with individuals, children, young people and families since 1990. Kay began her career working with troubled young people and children in residential care and in specialist agencies,  then spent nine years working in child and adolescent mental health. For the past ten years she has lectured in narrative therapy in higher education at undergraduate and post-graduate level and has been running a private therapy and counselling practice for children, families, young people and adults. For the last 12 years she has been supervised by the co-inventor of Narrative Therapy, David Epston, and has taught alongside David for the last 5 years. Kay has published several articles. She is currently writing and presenting about her apprenticeship with David Epston. She also provides one-on-one and group training called ‘Training Through Transcripts’, to narrative practitioners committed to bringing David’s practices into their own work.


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