June 11, 2013
Peggy Sax
Maggie, Shona and Rob speak eloquently about their aspirations to bring Michael’s presence into their practice and teaching – his intentions, the ethical position of the work, the careful, thoughtful way Michael spoke. As Rob says, “Behind the practice of narrative is such a strong, powerful and helpful ethic in terms our engagement with people, what people mean to us, and what we can all mean to each other.”
Some of us had the privilege to know Michael – as a mentor, colleague and/or friend. Others meet Michael through his writings or perhaps even through this course. Regardless of how we come to know Michael and his work, what stands out to you the most? What of Michael’s influence do you most wish to carry forward?
Cate Ryan
HI Everyone,
I’ve just had a listen to these transcripts and I must say that it is so lovely to hear Maggie, Rob and Shona’s voice again as they speak about coming together to continue the enquiry and ethic of narrative that Michael put so much heart into. I participated in Maggie, Rob and Shona’s NPA certificate course a few years ago, however I live far away from their counselling centre so it is lovely to reconnect in this way.
As to Peggy’s starter question, I think something that stands out to me from Michael’s work (and I am someone who didn’t meet him in person) is the principle that people are not passive in their experiences. That actions and responses to situations or the effects of problems demonstrate in some way, and this may be tiny or perhaps covert, an importance that they a finding a way to keep visiable and connected to in their life. By meeting people with the principle that they are active, no matter how tiny the agency my appear, if we really listen, really ask questions to understand meaning and purpose then we might be able to find a thread that leads us into the world of possibilities. There are other things too from Michael’s work that I learnt and developed during my time with NPA that have resonated with the values i hold about community, humanity and the power of acceptance that comes with a realness of connection with people when joining with then where they are at.
I’d love to hear from other too about the ideas or experiences or memories which come to your thoguhts when you think of what’s stood out to you from Michale’s intentions of working with people?
Cate
Sarah Hughes
June 15, 2013
I think what really stands out to me in Michael’s intentions fits with what you are saying cate – fits with that idea of developing a thread of agency out of the details of a person’s life.
I am so inspired by Michael’s curiousity about the people’s lives that was not intrusive – just so generative of details that seemed to make people become more curious about their own lives themselves. He often in his writing and teaching has quoted the social scientist Pierre Bourdieu who talked about “exoticising the domestic.”
This sentiment really helps a conversation move from what is known and familiar (and maybe considered ordinary and stuck) to what is possible to think about differently and maybe see new possibilities or inspiration. I appreciate that this inspiration comes not from an outside source but from within the exploration of the details of a person’s life.
Sarah
Peggy Sax
First of all, a hearty “Welcome!” to you, Zhao. I love that you are writing to us all the way from China. I’m sorry you cannot easily hear the audiotapes, but glad to know you have a solution in mind. I was very moved to read your account of getting to know – and love – Michael over the past five years. I share in your belief that Michael is “there” (“here?”) to accompany you as you continue to develop narrative therapy in China. Your plan to offer narrative therapy with trauma international training program in Sichuan province sounds fantastic! I hope you will keep us posted as you continue encourage in your commitment to produce local narrative therapists to help people who suffered from the earthquake. Michael accompanies me too as I work on developing this course. He has a very busy spirit!
Peggy
June 17, 2013
Hi Peggy,
Thanks for your welcome!
The trauma training program in Sichuan province is a big plan. I plan to talk with some NGO fund to persuade them to give us financial support. They provide money and we organize training and supervision. And the participants join the training for free. But they need to provide therapy for local people for free too. We will provide advanced training and supervision for them so that they could provide better therapy service. I just share this idea with my boss this afternoon. He askes for more information about the training teachers.
By the way, Peggy, do you have the interest of going to China to hold narrative therapy training and supervision? What kinds of training you would like to hold in China(Such as children, trauma, couple and so on) if you have interest? I am considering holding two trauma program, one is in Sichuan with the support of NGO, another is in Nanjing. If you have interest, we could talk more on it.
June 18, 2013
Zhao Zhao
It’s very sad for me that the first time I heard news about Michael was about his death. In May,2008, I got 5 english version books of family therapy,four written by Minuchin(I never finished reading any of them) and one by Jill(I read it 7 or 8 times). Dr Hu, a structure family therapist, told me that Michael just passed away on Aril. I just knew very few information about him before. I didn’t feel strong emotion because I didn’t know much about him and narrative therapy by that time.
But when I began to read Jill’s book. I fell in love with narrative therapy and got to know Michael more and more. I was tearful when I read his therapy transcript in maps of narrative therapy. I heard many stories about him through Jill and Jane. What most stand out to me is his apprenticeship,modest and hard-working on reading and practicing so that narrative therapy could develop continuously. He gave us “maps” which could guide us to practice. He gave us the spirit of narrative therapists which could guide us to be the one we want to. Michael showed us how wonderful a narrative therapist could be. I dedicate myself to develop narrative therapy in China with the influence of Michael.
I felt very emotional when Jill and Jane shared stories about Michael during our training in Nanjing. The stories about his wearing shining sweater to present live interview, about the Lily’s(Jill’s daughter) socks which he took by mistake and letters he wrote to reflect about “warmth” of socks.I invited Michael in my heart to present our ending ceremony of the training program in Nanjing.And on the night before Jill and Jane left, we had a long conversation about Michael’s stories. That’s a wonderful night full of memories. Michael will always encourage me to develop narrative therapy in China. I plan to hold narrative therapy with trauma international training program in Sichuan province to produce local narrative therapists to help people who suffered from earthquake. I know Michael will join too.
June 16, 2013
Cate Ryan
HI Sarah, Hi Zhao, hi Peggy and HI all,
I feel so much resonance with the points you are all raising about Michael’s spirit in our continued work. Zhao, I wept and wept while reading ‘Maps’ and just felt ike I have dived into the counselling room with the family and Michael there with me, just by turing the pages. These stories also provoked understandings about my own families story which has also been touched wehn left behind by suicide.
Zhao, I smiled at the picture that came to mind with you and a pile of books, most of which seem discarded, but your head burried in Jill’s accounts, time and time again. What was it that caught your eye when reading about narrative therapy that got you pushing aside other ways and apprecticing yourself to narrative ways?
Cate
Hi Cate,
I think it is the spirit of narrative therapy attracted me. I learned structure family therapy firstly with a teacher in Shenzhen city. I read all chinese translation books written by Minuchin. I got a 2 days training about it and also watched the videos of some famous structure family therapist doing therapy. I felt it was very difficult to practice structure family therapy and people could fight in front of you in therapy room. I didn’t like this part.
But when I read Jill’s book. It is so equal, open and full of possibility. I love it at the first glance. I could understand and practice the theory and skills. I remembered I once talked with a friend to introduce narrative therapy to him although he knew very few about therapy. He posed some questions about narrative therapy and we soon did a live interview which he pretend to be an old people who suffered from his son. And I lead a deconstruction conversation with him. It is the first time I practiced narrative therapy and it really worked.
Jill’s book gave me the confidence to be a therapist. It is definitly a big turning point in my career.
Zhao
Peggy Sax
Hi Zhano!
Of course! I am happy to support your big training plan in China -however I can. I have never been to China. It is a lifelong dream. Let’s keep talking by how I might participate in your plans for training and supervision- maybe by email?
I also think you – and others – who share a passion for trauma work might really enjoy the conversation on Narrative, the body & neurobiology that is now taking place in “The Collab.” Just follow the link to the Narrative, The Body & Neurobiology Special Interest Topic. If you have time, read the archived conversation first before joining the continuing conversation (note: you will probably need to log in for the archived conversation….and the continuing conversation already has 2 pages!)
Zhao, I’ve very interested to hear learn more from you and your knowledge of Chinese medicine – and in particular, any sparks that fly if and when you can join the conversation between Ken, Malachy, Cate & Sarah. How do their ideas on narrative, the body and trauma relate to your work in Chinese Medicine? Somehow I think you will have much to add to this conversation – so come join when you can. (that welcome goes to anyone here who share this special interest!).
Peggy
Hi Peggy,
Thanks a lot for your supporting. Let’s talk about it by email.
There are a lot of topics and conversations in the group. I feel that I can’t catch up with others. I admire you could read English very easily and I read it very hard and slowly. Anyway, I will try to join as much discussion as I could.
Zhao
Cate Ryan
June 30, 2013, 6:16 PM
Sorry it has taken me a little bit to get back to your post – it got burried and I’ve just come across it again.
Your words about Jill’s book – “It is so equal, open and full of possibility” – have filled my heart with warmth and soul with energy. I think I would have followed this path too rather than one where “people could fight in front of you in the therapy room”!
If Jill’s book was a big turning point, I’d love to know what keeps you going with narrative ways? From what I’ve read in other posts, it seems you may be up against many powers and yet, you continue to find an emerging path.
Thank you for your reply, “It is so equal, open and full of possibility” will stay with me for the next little while.
Cate
Hello all and especially Zao,
There is so much to respond to and I find that I am spinning in many directions. I have just written in another forum about the spirt of the work, also referring to Rob,Maggie and Shona. I have had the good fortune to attend workshops with Maggie and Shona.
Zao, I have recently begun an inquiry into Chinese Medicine because a person I consult with is dissatisfied with his medical care and I am talking with him about other traditions to demonstrate that there are many ways of approaching illness. Coincidentally, I have regular correspondence with a group that I studied with at the Dulwich Centre. We had a recent e-mail conversation was about incorporating other aspects of non-western medicine traditions including yoga and meditation. I believe that in the US we will need to consider practices outside of the traditional modernist model to have a sustainable system.
Anyway, cheers and It is delighful reading your entries. Bobbi
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